On today's episode of the 5 Things podcast: GOP presidential candidates went at each other in the second debate, while many continued avoiding the party's overwhelming frontrunner - Donald Trump. A possible government shutdown continues to loom. USA TODAY Sports Columnist Dan Wolken breaks down the firing of Michigan State football coach Mel Tucker in the wake of sexual harassment allegations revealed in a USA TODAY investigation. Dozens of arrests were made in Philadelphia after a looting spree. USA TODAY National Correspondent Marco della Cava explains what the Ringling Bros. circus will look like without animal acts.

Podcasts: True crime, in-depth interviews and more USA TODAY podcasts right hereHit play on the player above to hear the podcast and follow along with the transcript below. This transcript was automatically generated, and then edited for clarity in its current form. There may be some differences between the audio and the text.

Taylor Wilson:

Good morning. I'm Taylor Wilson, and this is 5 Things You Need To Know, Thursday the 28th of September 2023.

Today we recap a feisty Republican presidential debate, plus the latest on a looming government shutdown and the aftermath of Michigan State's firing of head football coach, Mel Tucker. Republican presidential candidates took the stage near Los Angeles last night for the second GOP debate, the party's front-runner for the nomination, former President Donald Trump, was notably absent like he was for the first debate, but in attendance, positioned on stage in order of how they're ranked in the polls were Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, along with entrepreneur Vivek Ramaswamy and former South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley. Former Vice President Mike Pence was there, as were former New Jersey governor Chris Christie, South Carolina Senator Tim Scott and North Dakota Governor Doug Burgum.

To qualify, candidates needed a minimum of 50,000 unique donors while also polling at least 3% in two national polls or 3% in one national and one early state poll, Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson, who qualified for the first debate did not make the stage this time. The night's big issue centered on the economy, the border and crime. Only two candidates, Chris Christie and Ron DeSantis went directly at the elephant in the room, Donald Trump. Here's Governor DeSantis, who's number two in the polls after Trump.

Ron DeSantis:

Donald Trump is missing in action. He should be on this stage tonight. He owes it to you to defend his record where they added 7.8 trillion to the debt.

Taylor Wilson:

And former governor Chris Christie had choice words for the former president.

Chris Christie:

And you're not here tonight, not because of polls and not because of your indictments. You're not here tonight because you're afraid of being on this stage and defending your record. You're ducking these things and let me tell you what's going to happen, you keep doing that, no one up here is going to call you Donald Trump anymore. We're going to call you a Donald Duck.

Taylor Wilson:

Still despite the shots at Trump, no candidate is even close to him in the polls. According to a RealClearPolitics average of multiple national polls, those on stage last night were a combined 20 points or more below him. And pollster Frank Luntz, who has long done focus groups of Republican voters, said the chaos of the argumentative debate made no one a winner. He said, "Tonight just makes it more likely that Donald Trump is the Republican nominee." For his part, former Vice President Mike Pence, highlighted positives under his administration with Trump.

Mike Pence:

We became a net exporter of energy for the first time in 75 years.

Taylor Wilson:

Pence also said the administration oversaw record low unemployment for Black and Hispanic Americans. Though he failed to mention that those rates have fallen even lower under President Joe Biden. You can find a full recap and analysis of last night's debate with a link in today's show notes or by heading to usatoday.com.

A possible government shutdown continues to loom. As of yesterday, lawmakers had made little progress toward diverting a crisis that would hit homes across the country on Sunday. That means Congress has just three days left to cut a deal. A shutdown wouldn't be as far-reaching as the debt ceiling threat this past May, but it would deeply impact Americans who need the most help. That includes low income families who rely on Head Start programs for preschool, people who receive food stamps and college students who receive federal grants to pay for their education. A shutdown would also hit federal workers, furloughing some without pay. While other essential federal workers would work without pay but would receive back pay once a shutdown ends.

Michigan State has fired head football coach Mel Tucker for inappropriate conduct. The move came just two weeks after a USA Today investigation revealed sexual harassment allegations against him. I spoke with USA Today sports columnist Dan Wolken for more. Dan, thanks for hopping on the show.

Dan Wolken:

Thank you.

Taylor Wilson:

Dan, what led to this moment?

Dan Wolken:

If you go back late last year, Brenda Tracy, who is a rape survivor and an activist who goes around and does a lot of speaking engagements at various colleges with football teams, other athletic teams to try to educate about sexual assault. She filed a complaint against Mel Tucker alleging that he had sexually harassed her. The university launched an investigation and it took place essentially in secrecy over the course of many months, and it became public earlier in September, thanks to the work of USA Today colleague, Kenny Jacoby. That initiated a process where Michigan State was going to have hearings and essentially suspended him. And that led to his firing.

There was really no other option in this for Michigan State because what Tucker admitted to with their investigators was enough grounds really for the school to fire him with cause. He will contest it and he will try to recoup some of the money that was remaining on his 10 year, $95 million contract. But what he admitted to which is essentially making sexual comments while masturbating in a phone call with Brenda Tracy, who he claimed he had a intimate, personal relationship with, was very problematic behavior and very clearly grounds for Michigan State to fire him.

Taylor Wilson:

You mentioned the hearings, a formal hearing on this is scheduled for next week, and also Tucker and his attorneys are expected to file a lawsuit against the school. What's next, Dan, for these battles?

Dan Wolken:

Look, I think we're probably going to get some type of settlement at some point. That's the way these things typically work. However, Michigan State may press forward on this and just go through the entire process because they believe that they don't owe Mel Tucker anything. I'm not a lawyer, it's hard for me to say exactly where this is going to fall legally, but I think the argument from the school side is pretty rock solid, which is that Mel Tucker, in his job as the head football coach at Michigan State, had a key role, probably the biggest role in determining whether Brenda Tracy was going to continue being paid by Michigan State to come speak to the football team.

That's her job, that's how she makes her living, and the fact that they had some type of relationship, personal relationship that was taking place over the course of about a year from 2021 to 2022, and then Tucker essentially canceled subsequent appearances that were scheduled for Brenda Tracy after they had this phone call and falling out. It certainly suggests that the relationship, even if he considered it personal, was very clearly wrapped up in his duties as the head coach of Michigan State.

Taylor Wilson:

Dan, as you said, there's this massive $95 million contract at the heart of all this. Why are the details of Tucker's contract so important here?

Dan Wolken:

I think one of the things that Tucker contends, and he might have a point here, is that Michigan State is using this as a pretext to not have to pay him. Essentially, after the 2021 season, which was a great year at Michigan State, they went 11 and two. It was only Tucker's second year there. They gave him this massive contract extension, 10 years, $95 million fully guaranteed. That's a lot of money to commit to a coach over a very long period of time. And he was only in a second year of this deal. There was a lot of money left on it, and yet the results at Michigan State had very clearly declined last year. They're not very good this year, and it was looking like a bad contract, like a bad deal they couldn't get out of. Now they have this ability to get out the contract based on his personal conduct. What he's saying is, "No, no, no, you're only firing me because we started losing football games and you're just using this as an excuse to not pay me what I'm owed."

Taylor Wilson:

USA Today's sports columnist, Dan Wolken. Great insight as always. Thank you, Dan.

Dan Wolken:

Thank you.

Taylor Wilson:

More than 50 people have been arrested after multiple stores, including Apple, were ransacked in Philadelphia's center city area on Tuesday night, according to authorities. Police say a crowd at the stores grew to about a hundred at one point. The incident came just hours after the National Retail Federation reported what it called a dramatic jump in financial losses associated with theft. Losses to theft, often referred to as shrink, as a percentage of total retail sales accounted for more than $112 billion in losses last year. That's up from 94 billion a year earlier.

After a six-year hiatus. The Ringling Brothers and Barnum and Bailey Circus is back, but there's a notable absence from the 152-year-old American circus. The famous animal acts are gone. I spoke with USA Today, national correspondent Marco della Cava to learn more. Marco, thanks for hoping on 5 Things.

Marco della Cava:

Absolutely.

Taylor Wilson:

The Ringling Brothers Circus is coming back, but without the famous animal acts this time. Marco, what led to this decision to get rid of the animals in the first place?

Marco della Cava:

Frankly, a combination of things. One was a lot of lawsuits on the part of the Humane Society, the ASPCA and others. Incidentally, there was never any real hardcore proof of animal abuse. There were certainly animals in captivity. Feld Entertainment, which owns Ringling Brothers, actually won a big lawsuit and they were paid damages. But in the end, the combination of that publicity and poor ticket sales caused them to close down in about 2017.

Taylor Wilson:

The animals are going away. What are some of the new acts that the circus is bringing into the fold to make up for the loss of animals?

Marco della Cava:

A lot of them are the acts you might expect. And that existed when there were animals. That's people on a trapeze and people on a high wire and the human cannon, all of that's still there. The new acts are, I guess a tribute to the times we're in. There's a big BMX bike segment. They're also jugglers. There are clowns, but not clowns in face paint that much like the animals has disappeared. It's a lot of action that's aimed at the whole family. A lot of this may sound familiar to people who got the Cirque de Soleil. They're arguing that their show is going to be more family friendly, less about a funky story that's being told and more just straight ahead, "Hey, here's a guy on a 30-foot unicycle. Check it out."

Taylor Wilson:

This was a part that stood out in your story to me, Marco, about the clowns and how they're now associated really with horror movies more than anything. What is this new version of clown they're going to have? Or is it just that there won't be clowns at all and they're going to do a new type of comedy?

Marco della Cava:

There will be people who will be being funny and potentially dressed funny, but they will not have the Bozo the Clown red hair, face paint, which as you say, thanks to the Stephen King It movies, is horrifying to some people. I think they decided to just steer clear of that and not risk anything. They're basically going to be folks who are going to entertain in a humorous way, and I guess it remains to be seen how.

Taylor Wilson:

What does distinguish this from Cirque de Soleil or other similar performances without animals? And also Marco, how are they really planning on trapping people's attention here in 2023 when there are so many distractions and so many different types of entertainment out there?

Marco della Cava:

To answer your first question about Cirque de Soleil, Cirque de Soleil, if anyone's been, it always has a theme. It has a name, it has a theme, and they weave that theme in for the whole show. And it's almost like a play with amazing acrobatics. That's not what Ringling Brothers is doing. They're literally just saying, "Here's a whole bunch of amazing acts, 75 performers from 18 countries. There's no story we're telling other than we're at this amazing spectacle that there's something going on every two seconds and you're bound to be entertained by a lot of it."

Your question about how to capture people in 2023 is an apt one. The truth is, I think a combination of really pacing, the show is just under two hours, 75 performers, I think you're just going to be hit with performance after performance. And ultimately what they told me, the Feld Entertainment people said, "Look, ultimately everything you see is real. And much of what we see, especially in movies, may look amazing, but it's questionable as to how real it is. You come to our circus, you're going to see people doing amazing things in real life, in real time and you can't get that anywhere else."

Taylor Wilson:

All right, USA Today, national correspondent, Marco della Cava, getting us excited for the circus. Thank you, Marco.

Marco della Cava:

Thank you.

Taylor Wilson:

And finally is in-person work the new norm. Tune in today at 4:00 PM when my colleague, Dana Taylor, speaks with INSEAD business professor, Mark Mortensen, who joins 5 Things to give us perspective on how both employers and employees are considering the future of work. And thanks for listening to 5 Things. If you like the show, please subscribe and leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And if you have any comments, you can reach us at podcasts@usatoday.com. I'm back tomorrow with more of 5 Things from USA Today.

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